Unpacking Travel: Hospitality Talks with Amadeus

Evolving Your Sales Teams to Win with Scout Simply’s Holly Zoba

October 22, 2020 Amadeus Hospitality | Building the Future of Travel | Hospitality Technology Innovation Season 1 Episode 4
Unpacking Travel: Hospitality Talks with Amadeus
Evolving Your Sales Teams to Win with Scout Simply’s Holly Zoba
Show Notes Transcript

How has Covid-19 impacted hospitality sales teams? What can hoteliers start doing today to bring revenue back in the door? Holly Zoba, HSMAI board member and owner of Scout Simply, answers these questions and more as we dive into the shifting world of hospitality sales and discuss tactical advice to help hoteliers and their teams evolve with the changing landscape.

For more information, visit www.amadeus-hospitality.com/podcast.

Speaker 1:

When you first interviewed Holly with scout, simply when we partnered with those e-books with HSMA AI on what was that one quote that she said about how sales teams are going to succeed a nd w in in the pandemic?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. She had a really interesting perspective. She said, we all know that the hotel industry is going to change, but we know far less about how our customer's business is going to change. So it's the sales teams that can understand the customer's business shift. Those are the ones who are going to go out there.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. And I feel like for everybody listening, that really sums up the entire conversation we had with her.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. She is in this every day and that's what I really enjoyed. It was kind of a different perspective because we were able to talk high level about what's happening strategically, but also what are the things that you can do right now? Roll up your sleeves, get into actually perform better at your job immediately.

Speaker 1:

So in this episode, we break down a multitude of things about how to shift the mentality as a salesperson, different pieces of technology that you can use and other high-level pieces of advice, even that leaders of sales organizations can really act on right now. So let's dive into our third episode with Holly,

Speaker 2:

Holly, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. All right. We're excited for this. And, uh, Holly, I know you and I have been chatting for a while and, uh, bonding over our love of, uh, tacos and Arizona, but for the audience that spends a plug. Oh yeah. I mean, taco Tuesday, like legendary over there. I mean, if there's any

Speaker 1:

Shameless plug, it might as well be tacos. Right?

Speaker 2:

So Holly, for the, for the audience who doesn't know you yet, uh, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Speaker 3:

Sure. I own a company called scout simply, which, uh, you probably will hear the dog barking in the background named for my dog scout because she had this insatiable curiosity, which I think is important. This simply is because I try to make the search for revenue for hotels really clear. And I do it. It's a training company. I do it by trying to help people learn some new cutting edge technology. That's out there to help them accelerate the sales process. I'm not a consultant, I'm a trainer. Let's, let's get that out on the table, right. To start. Not that there's anything wrong with consultants. Some of my best friends are consultants, but I am a trainer.

Speaker 2:

There we go. So you mentioned hotels, but who specifically are you working with?

Speaker 3:

I really work with, uh, right now I'm working with a bunch of global sellers from a brand. And I also have some directors of sales from hotels, and then I teach a digital marketing class. And so I have some asset managers, if you need to make money in hotels, you're probably to want to do some form of my training.

Speaker 2:

And that's why we're really excited to you on we first got connected when we were doing a separate research topic on the changing sales environment. And you know, it was just a, uh, a quick talk with you and it was obvious like, Oh wow, we need to have you on the podcast and share some of this knowledge. So I'm excited that we can actually make this happen. So we know what's happened, right. You know, global pandemic and, uh, the, the entire hospitality world is upside down. But can you give us a layer deeper through your lens of like what's happening on the ground? Like what's happening to your clients?

Speaker 3:

Sure. So, you know, this is such a funny question because it would be far easier to say what hasn't changed versus what has changed because everything's changed. I mean, the, our customer base has changed the people that used to do business with us, aren't traveling anymore. We have a new customer base the way that they buy, the way that they make decisions has changed. Obviously the big topic of conversation right now at hotels is how do we structure that sales and marketing department. I know some big brands who have furloughed, their salespeople are bringing them back as contractors. Part-time I know a lot of hotel companies who are regionalizing their sales efforts. And then there are some sales companies who are keeping their salespeople on property, but you know, when that happens right now, they spend a portion of their time working the front desk and cleaning rooms. It's just, absolutely everything has changed except for the need to go out there and find some new business.

Speaker 2:

So I wanted to dive into something that we had been kicking around before, but there is a changing sales structure out there and sort of some new notions around going off property and clustering of hotels and hunters. Can you kind of elaborate on that? I think that's a really important point for our audience.

Speaker 3:

Sure. Well, and this is really where I differ with kind of the common thought in our industry right now. In fact, I just sat through a meeting yesterday with a group of sales leaders in the hotel world. And we were talking about the search for hunters. One of the big things, obviously that's changed is, u h, six months ago, salespeople on property regional doesn't matter. We're busy with incoming leads and getting information out there and closing sales as best. They could big change. That's not happening anymore. There's certainly business to be had, but it's not coming in like it was. And so the automatic response of course, is we g otta find hunters. We have, you know, right now we have these farmers and we've got t o transition o ur sales team to be hunters. And I could not disagree more. First of all, I feel like if you say that you're looking for a sales Hunter, like the eighties is calling on their rotary phone and they w ent t heir sales t erm back. Okay. So the last thing we need, our hunters, uh, what we need, right? One of the big things that's transitioned is the way that people buy is online. Certainly. U h, there's so much technology out there that makes it easy for you to go out and find who's searching for hotel rooms. And if you approach them as let's say a Gordon g ecko, which is who I think, I don't know how old you guys are, but you would. Y eah, exactly. T he t error, the greed is good, famous, u h, on wall street in that eighties. He's my picture of a Hunter. If you have a buyer out there who's kind of interested and you give t hem a Gordon g ecko type aggressive let's, let's close this deal salesperson. They don't want anything to do with you. They're, they're searching online for a reason. They're more comfortable searching online and say, you've got to figure out a way to insert yourself as much more of a trusted business partner, a trusted advisor. You can't come across as a Hunter or even a farmer. Quite frankly, they don't want to deal with farmers either because they don't have time for that. What they have time for is somebody who's going to give them some valuable insights and help them and make them look good and give them good information. And not only then are they going to talk to you, but they're going to invite you into their buying committee, which is another big change that's going on. You don't have one person making buying decisions anymore. You have a buying committee o f multiple people. And so as sellers, you need to really position yourself as this helpful, u h, valued business a dvisor.

Speaker 1:

One of the things that you said that was kind of interesting is they that a lot of hoteliers or, or management groups don't have enough time for farmers and that it's not the best idea to use hunters. So i t, it seems like there's either some kind of compromise of an i n-between, but one of the things that you mentioned within that, that I think is, is important to focus on is within those ki nds o f polarizing mindsets, you talked about just providing evidence, providing support, providing, u h, j ust kind of guidance as a seller. And historically th ere's b een such a high demand within the industry that sellers didn't necessarily have to worry about that as much the business was flowing in, it was more or der-taking a nd facilitating the deal and not necessarily marketing the deal or trying to nurture the deal in the right way. And I, I feel like there's, there's kind of a compelling point there because the sensitivity around the nature of a deal right now, because of the pandemic, whether it's lack of budget or hesitancy to invest, whatever that may be, I'm very interested in what your perspective is about how this mental shift in the way that sellers have to sell. And that they have to think more like marketers. They have to have more empathy. They have to start at more of an awareness stage of the cycle rather than immediately right into the buy. How is that changing the motivation, the execution, the overall nature of how sales teams are operating.

Speaker 3:

There really are a couple of types of salespeople. And what research has shown is there's a promoter and that's the person who's very action focused. They're they, they are looking for results. That's really sort of that Gordon gecko kind of person. And then there's the people who are trying to prevent loss. They're your traditional farmers, but that's really their mindset. Here's the thing then. And this is so critical for today. The most successful sellers are the ones who are flexible and can do both. So that's really why I think you can't go out there and look for hunters or farmers. You need to be as a salesperson and you need to be hiring the person who can juggle both. And that's really the big difference. I think in the mindset shift, you have to be open to learning some new things. As I said, if you're fortunate enough to have a strong marketing backup there's technology out there that goes out and find you actual people who are searching for meetings in Southern Florida in 2021, and they can bring them to you as a sales person, as a lead, you don't need a Hunter. You don't need that traditional person going out. The MarTech does that for you and brings it to you. However, that person wants nothing to do with the salesperson that lead that you've gotten. They do not want a salesperson. If you call them up and try to sell them, they're not going to be interested. There's a reason they're searching online. They're more comfortable. They're not ready to talk to a salesperson, but who they would love to talk to is somebody who's going to give them some interesting insights. Look, don't plan your meeting in September in Southern Florida, because you're going to have a hurricane. And if you've got to make sure you have this insurance, it's the insights. That's what they're looking for. And so that's how sales really needs to evolve. You need to be learning what technology is out there to help you do your job better. And what's also really challenging is you've gotta be a savvier business partner. You've got to know much more about the companies to whom you're selling. It's a, it's a tall order. It really is. Especially again, for those hotel properties who are having their sales people work at the front desk.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. This is actually a great segue into what I was hoping we could kind of dive in next. And that's when you look at the common threads of your clients, what is that common theme among the successful ones from say the individual sales person level. Also the property

Speaker 1:

Level is what are they doing? And what's working.

Speaker 3:

So I always believe when you're hiring a sales person, the first thing they've got to have is curiosity. And my most successful clients have that curiosity today. The second thing is adaptability. They've gotta be flexible. They've gotta be willing to learn new things and take new approaches. If they're trying to do the same old thing, they're not going to get anywhere. And so the clients that I work with that are most successful, and this is I think really interesting. I'm working right now with a group of global sellers. So they handle multi-million dollar accounts for a big chain. And a lot of them have worked for kind of the same company for 20 years, which is astounding. When you think about it, that doesn't happen anymore. Right? As I've gotten to know these people, the one common thread through all of them is their ability to adapt. I'm teaching them technology. I'm teaching salespeople technology. I can't tell you how many sales people say to me. Thank you. Now I believe in relationships. I don't need technology. I don't want to get in my way, this group of people, and they're not 20 year olds, they're there. They've been doing this for 20 years. They I'm astounded are embracing technology because they have learned, they have survived through a lot of buyouts. The company's changed hands. A number of times they've made it through because of their willingness to adapt, to learn, to change, to figure out this is what works. This is what I have to do to be successful. So curiosity and adaptability, however you're doing it are key up your skillset, learn some technology.

Speaker 1:

So you talked about the common forefront of success being adaptability and the flexibility within that, as well as a curiosity, but is there a common root of that lack thereof? Uh, you know, the, the people that are resistant to change?

Speaker 3:

Sure, absolutely. There's fear. There's fear that they're not going to be able to learn it. There's fear that it's not going to work for them. There's fear that they're not going to have a job we're living in such as, you know, such a stressful time right now. It's just painful. And there's a fear. I'll give you some personal insight a couple of years ago. I am not, uh, so young either. And a couple of years ago, I made the decision to go back to school and get a degree and become a full stack web developer. And so talk about a mindset change. I'm a salesperson. And I went to coding bootcamp. So everyday I'm in this coding bootcamp. And I saw firsthand in myself and others in this class, what gets in our way is our mindset. So we think of that. We're going to be able to learn this. I kept thinking I'm in this class with people who are 20, 25 years younger than me. And I kept saying to, uh, my friends in the class, my brain is full of a lot of information. You're young, your brain isn't full yet. It's easier for you to get this and they would laugh and you would just get in your own way, you know? And that's what happens all the time with salespeople. If you can just let that go and think, you know what? I got this, I can probably handle this lo and behold, you can actually get this. So it's yourself getting in your way is the first obstacle. But the second obstacle, and this is where I feel like it's my job to overcome. I've got to give them some easy wins. I've got to show them some technology that they say, wow, this is actually easy. And it really can help me out. Share with you one element of my class. I think I mentioned this to you before when we were talking at crystal knows, is a ridiculous app that exists, and you can tie it in with LinkedIn. You just download the Chrome extension. And so you're searching for LinkedIn and let's say, have a meeting with somebody. So you pull them up i n LinkedIn as a salesperson. You should be doing research on the people you're going to be talking to, or sending a prospecting email to you, pull them up. You click on t hem. And crystal knows, comes up with a personality profile on this person that you are going to be meeting with. And I'm talking an in-depth personality profile. It tells you when you try and do business with this person, they're a big picture. So don't talk to them about the details or they're very analytical show them charts. So this tool didn't exist a few years ago. It's here. Now you can use it. It literally, this tool even tells you if you're sending them a prospecting email, here's a great way to open it. I will present that early on in the class and people will say, huh, this technology stuff. Maybe there's something to it. And so they'll become a little bit more open. So it's the, you know, it's really just the fear and the mindset that gets in the way they start to see, okay. Maybe it can be helpful. And in a matter of a couple of hours, they're a little bit more open. They're a little bit more willing, and then they can delve more deeply. The second thing that I've got to bring up is, uh, the motivation part. People are scared. They've dealt for the last couple of months with nothing but cancellations. And so what used to be maybe 10 or 20% of a sales leader's job, which was to motivate people is now probably closer to 40% of their job. They've really got to be recognizing the work that people are doing, the effort that they're putting in and just really how challenging it is today. So I was never really one of those touchy, feely, r ah, r ah kind of people. But I see a huge need for it today. A nd sales leadership, you really have to build up your folks. And

Speaker 2:

So I want to go a level deeper here. Um, and this is sort of a two-part follow-up, but the first being, okay, you know, adaptability, curiosity, willingness to change. Let's say someone's listening right now. And they're like, I'm all those things. And I'm scared. You know, I want to do a great job. I want to bring revenue back to the hotel. So where can you point them? Like, what are the things they can start doing the technology to start using? Where can they get some of those other big wins? Like you had mentioned with that, crystal knows.

Speaker 3:

Well, of course they need to take my classes.

Speaker 2:

There we go.

Speaker 3:

Probably be one, but I'll give you a couple of other apps that I think are important. One is really relatively new. It's called spark Toro. So for example, let's say your, u h, i ndustry is p harmaceuticals. You go to spark Toro, you type in, you have a couple of different options. Find out people who are frequently talking about pharmaceutical sales. You could, that's an option that you can choose. People that have pharmaceutical sales in their profile. You can have that as an option spark To ro t hen goes out and does this massive search and brings back results so that you can see people who are interested in pharmaceutical sales. These are the podcasts they're listening to. These are the social sites that they belong to. These are the influencers that they follow. You can really do a deep dive into your industry very quickly using spark Tur o. S o that's another example. The biggest win that I see for my clients is in video, everyone's watching video, salespeople need to be making videos, but let me assure you, you can't just put a video out there. You really have to tell a story in your video. You've got to put some thought into it. And then there's technology and apps that allow you to type in a script or plug in your blog post. And it will use AI to generate a video for you in about 30 seconds. And so all you have to do is go in and edit that video to make it hotel or property specific. So again, if you have a fantastic marketing department, they can do all this stuff for you. Unfortunately in hotels, that's never really been the case now, as sellers, you can really do it on your own for yourself, very simply, very quickly.

Speaker 1:

Do you think that the adoption of technology, when, when a sales person sees the tangible benefit it's, I'm sold, I don't need any more education, just give everything to me. And if that's the case, how does a sales person create a sustainable path forward? Once adoptions hit? I'm curious, like kind of what those, what that next step of, you know, without giving away too much secret sauce, uh, what that next step of sustainability is as far as, okay, now I'm bought in like, what, what's next? Who do I go after first? How do I prioritize things? You know, how do you leverage that technology?

Speaker 3:

That is such a fantastic question. And it's one I wish everyone would ask because they do learn this stuff. And they're so excited, and this is great. I can't wait to use it. And then the class finishes in many cases with many training classes and you have something called a forgetting curve, literally, u h, 1883, a guy named Ebbinghaus figured this out. Whenever you learn something within something like 24 to 48 hours, y ou've forgotten 60% of it. U h, and then within a week you've forgotten 80% of it. And so what you have to do, and again, this is probably the third salespeople need to be curious. They need to be adaptable and they need to really get time management. And so what I recommend for people to do is have all of this technology that you're going to learn as you're going through the class, I'm asking you to identify, okay, this piece of technology, it's kind of cool. I'll use it someday, but I can't use it right away. It's not going to get me the best results. This other piece of technology I need to start using tomorrow because it's life changing. And so I, at the end of the, of my training, I always ask people, let's map out a two month plan, how you're going to slowly integrate this stuff into your normal sales life and big surprise. This, the salespeople who figure out how to do that again, are the ones that end up closing the most sales the most quickly. So it's, it's a great question because they get very excited, but if they don't make it a part of their everyday life, it's pointless. It's absolutely worthless.

Speaker 2:

It's sort of like in order to get someone's business, you have to get their business intellectually first, you have to get the person before you can get their business, right? So what's their personality. What are they looking for? What do they need help for? And I know Kevin and I in our marketing roles, you know, a big piece of what we do is we look for people who have raised their hands and they say, Hey, I need, I need help here. Right. They've interacted with something. They've asked a question in some way. And so it's using technology to find those people who have raised their hands and then engaging with them. So you don't have to go out knocking on doors because the technology kind of tells you that for you.

Speaker 3:

Right. Exactly. Exactly. And then it's how you engage with them. That's going to make the difference. If you come in as Gordon gecko, they're going to be like, yuck. Yeah. Let me get rid of you if instead, you're going to come back with, as I'm sure you too, do you know, let's talk about this. Tell me a little bit more about it. It's what I think is really interesting. I'm hugely into politics right now. And it's fascinating because all of the data shows you're going to vote for somebody that you can identify with, that you like, and that you can have some confidence in. It's the exact same thing as a sales person, you're going to do business with somebody that you like, that you trust, that you can identify with and somebody that feels like, uh, they get you. They understand you. So when you're thinking about your role as a sales or marketing person, think as if you were running for president, it's the same thing.

Speaker 1:

No, I think that's a good point because one of the things that we've found is a really urgent trend is this conversation that's going on between loyalty rewards, programs, and trust, t hen there's this battle going on of, I don't give a crap about how many points I have with this brand. I give a crap about how safe it is, how I can trust the people when I arrive. So can you expand a little bit more on that trust factor with sales? Because I do personally, I think that is the end game that every s alesperson needs to go after, because one of the things I've always followed with is a quote from Simon Sinek of people buy why you do things, not what you are doing. And I think now more than ever with sellers in the hospitality space, that's kind of all they need to focus on because once they've got that stickiness factor in the relationship and the trust is there, the business is almost kind of secondary at that point, right? Or am I, am I wrong in that way of thinking?

Speaker 3:

I think you're both right and wrong. Trust is critical. Without a doubt, it always has been. Salespeople have always needed to be trusted. You only want to do business with somebody that you trust without a doubt. Uh, the difference is 10 years ago, maybe even six or seven years ago, the trust was a little bit more personal. You did business with the sales person because you've worked with them for 20 years and they know your family and they know your kids and they know your life today. Our clients are under as much stress as we are. They are trying to hold onto their jobs. And so they need a salesperson. They can trust to take care of their business and you cannot take care of someone's business. If you don't understand their business, if you don't know their business, they need a salesperson to convey to them. I'm going to do what's best for you and your company. That's why you should trust me. And it's, I think this is really interesting back to the technology part. So I was talking about video and how critical it is, right? For some reason, people trust, video more than any other medium. So it doesn't say much for a podcast, sorry. Uh, but, uh, the, the concept of watching a video or watching somebody on video is critical as a result, this, and it's not brand new, but it's, it's just becoming more adopted video sales emails are very powerful. I've started experimenting a lot. The open rate is like 300%. If you put that, there's a video in your email, it's very strange. But what these videos, sales emails are, uh, it's you on video talking one-on-one to your customer and it's not necessarily one-on-one, you can do sort of a bulk, but you're talking about things that matter to them that accelerates the trust process and helps you close deals faster. Again, you can't make a lousy video sales email. It's got to be, it doesn't have to be perfect. It's gotta, it has to look legitimate. And you've got to be talking about a subject that matters to your customer, but again, it's trust, it's accelerating trust. That's all that the video is doing. It's making people able to trust you faster, which is accelerating the sales process. So yes, trust absolutely critical, a little bit different. It's not that they trust you that you're a good person. That's important. They trust that you are a good savvy business person who will look out for them in their job and do what's best for them.

Speaker 1:

It's almost like more of a partnership beyond the transaction.

Speaker 3:

100% you gotta be in it as a partner.

Speaker 1:

And do you think the video piece, you know, if it's experiencing that kind of an uplift in engagement, uh, you know, as far as sellers doing this with their clients, is it kind of almost like it's supplementing the in-person relationship? Or is it, is it, is there something else about it? It seems like that's what the, the root of it would be, right?

Speaker 3:

It gets both, I think right now you haven't been able to be in front of your customers and that's hard, it's hard for salespeople. Talk about a motivation thing when you're in sales, often, you like that interaction. And so I think that's part of it, but this trend of video being trustworthy started prior to COVID. So there's something to video it's, it's stronger than words. It's stronger than images

Speaker 1:

That we've kind of talked about. The nature of the common threads, both on the, you know, the positive end of what's, you know, most successful. What are kind of more of the challenges to the individual sellers? Let's take it just one step above that. As far as sales leaders, owners, people that are responsible for signing the checks, employing people let's say that there's somebody in the audience that is listening, that is a president or an owner, or a senior director of sales and managing a group of people. What are kind of like the very first steps that those people need to take in order to really make that mentality shift, to invest in the mindset of technology and adaptability and flexibility and curiosity, especially if they don't have their team in front of them. What are kind of those first initial, most urgent things that the leadership groups or the ownership groups need to be doing when they're reshaping or evolving the nature of their sales and marketing teams?

Speaker 3:

Great question. I think that what I have seen with the clients that I've been working with so far leadership has been kind of all over the board. And again, I just wrote a blog or a LinkedIn post a couple of weeks ago about maybe cut your leaders a little bit of Slack, because this is new for them too. Like they haven't gone through a pandemic before either. So maybe cut them a little bit of Slack. But what I have seen is when leadership starts to positively recognize the salespeople who are embracing this mindset of incorporating technology to do a better job, to reach more people, that's one of the first things that they can do to start to accelerate this change. They can start to noticeably celebrate those s alespeople who are taking an innovative approach, do it publicly. It makes that sales person feel good, which is important because as I mentioned, motivation is just really challenging right now, but it also sends a message to your other employees, Hey, this behavior is being recognized by our leadership. And so number one, start to recognize that number t wo, give them opportunities to learn and grow, recognize that one of the most frustrating parts. And I'm sure you guys see this in your numbers. It's incredible. The cost of advertising online advertising online marketing social is so cheap compared to what it was six months ago, pre COVID and nob ody's ta king advantage of it. I mean, the ROI could be spectacular right now. Uh, an d number two, everybody's online more. And so organizations have laid off and furloughed their marketing departments. And so ther e's, th ey're soc ial people. So I would say one of the first things you have to do is maybe brin g it back through your sales team, get them on line, get them branding, get them, learning how to do it, and then positively motivate those who are seizing the moment and actually producing some, uh, a cti vities and, and changing their behaviors to embrace this new technology. Fantastic. So Holly, as we wrap up here, um, f ir s t, thanks for all this, all this great insight. We've covered

Speaker 2:

A hundred ground here, but for our audience, you know, uh, how do they find you? How do they learn more?

Speaker 3:

The easiest way to find me is scout. simply.com is my website. Everything I do is on that website or email me Holly at scout, simply.com and big surprise. You can find me on LinkedIn, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, pretty much anywhere.

Speaker 2:

Fantastic. All right. Well, Holly, thank you so much for coming on the show today.

Speaker 3:

Thanks so much for having me. It was a blast. Hey, everyone.

Speaker 4:

We hope you enjoyed the podcast. If you liked what you heard, hit the subscribe button on whatever app you're using. You can also go to our website at Amadeus, hyphen hospitality.com/podcast to download the episodes directly and hit the contact us button on the page. If you have any feedback or topics you think we should unpack together. Thanks for listening.